• [deleted]

This really does seem to be an issue with Norton Antivirus, though. It causes the file operations in the installer (namely Shell.CreateShortcut and File.Run) to stall for minutes. The upside, at least in my testing, is that the installer still completes installation successfully after waiting for about five minutes during which it will seem as if it's frozen. Can anyone else confirm?


EDIT: apparently the problem is that either the installer or Norton really doesn't like the latest jv16PT.exe file specifically for some reason. We're working on it.

I am unpleasantly surprised by the reactions of a few 'multi year' users who experienced the unexpected "Installation problems" in jv16PT build 963.

I am really sorry for the trouble they had to go thru. But despite everything 'said and done', they suggest that this fustrating experience implies for

them the end of using jv16PT now and probably in the future.


Allow me to quote a home country expression saying: Be careful not to flush the baby with the dirty bath water!

Leonardo wrote:

I am unpleasantly surprised by the reactions of a few 'multi year' users who experienced the unexpected "Installation problems" in jv16PT build 963. I am really sorry for the trouble they had to go thru. But despite everything 'said and done', they suggest that this fustrating experience implies for them the end of using jv16PT now and probably in the future.

I think the unexpected “Installation problems” in jv16PT build 963 is over-the-top. It should have been tested thoroughly by Macecraft/Indigo with respect to the AV’s. The customers shouldn’t be the guinea pigs or beta testers unless you advise up-front that it hasn’t been tested. It was presented as ready for production. This is especially serious when these bad/buggy installers/updates can cause damage, hose a system, and wasting our precious time. After all, the reason we use jv16PT is to protect our systems and prevent them from being hosed. Anything less from Macecraft/Indigo shows a lack of respect to the customers and results in a lack of confidence with the software.

RDuroc wrote

It should have been tested thoroughly by Macecraft/Indigo with respect to the AV’s.

It's not our job to make sure our product works with Anti-Virus products. It's the job of the Anti-Virus product developers to make sure their AV works with other programs.

RDuroc wrote

The customers shouldn’t be the guinea pigs or beta testers unless you advise up-front that it hasn’t been tested. It was presented as ready for production. This is especially serious when these bad/buggy installers/updates can cause damage, hose a system, and wasting our precious time. After all, the reason we use jv16PT is to protect our systems and prevent them from being hosed. Anything less from Macecraft/Indigo shows a lack of respect to the customers and results in a lack of confidence with the software.

The problem cannot cause any damage. All you have to do is either disable your Anti-Virus product, or wait for about five minutes for the installation to complete.

According to our tests, the problem seems to be that certain Anti-Virus products slow down the creation of system shortcuts from the PowerTools' Installer.


One improvement in the latest build of PowerTools is the fact it creates two uninstall shortcuts to its installation directory. This change explains why the previous build worked with these Anti-Virus products and the latest version does not.


However, the problem does not occur if the installer contains the executable file of PowerTools 2009.


Therefore, there is something in the executable of PowerTools 2010 that causes some sort of additional heuristics feature of NIS to go on, and this causes the creation of the shortcuts to take minutes. And this causes the user's computer to freeze.


We will do some further testing but it seems it could be possible to bypass the problem by removing the creation of shortcuts.


Nevertheless, the problem is with the Anti-Virus product. But we will try to find to bypass the issue so we are not forced to wait for them to fix their problem.

RDuroc wrote

I think the unexpected “Installation problems” in jv16PT build 963 is over-the-top. It should have been tested thoroughly by Macecraft/Indigo with respect to the AV’s. The customers shouldn’t be the guinea pigs or beta testers unless you advise up-front that it hasn’t been tested. It was presented as ready for production. This is especially serious when these bad/buggy installers/updates can cause damage, hose a system, and wasting our precious time. After all, the reason we use jv16PT is to protect our systems and prevent them from being hosed. Anything less from Macecraft/Indigo shows a lack of respect to the customers and results in a lack of confidence with the software.

It is your good right to see it this way. I am a happy user of this product for >15 years.

Taking into consideration the clear responses of development, I am sorry to say that I still think these reactions are over-the-top.

jv16 wrote:

It's not our job to make sure our product works with Anti-Virus products. It's the job of the Anti-Virus product developers to make sure their AV works with other programs.


The problem cannot cause any damage. All you have to do is either disable your Anti-Virus product, or wait for about five minutes for the installation to complete.

#1 - Did Macecraft/Indigo submit the new build 963/installer to the AV developers so they could have a chance to test if it would work and give them a chance to provide a fix if necessary before releasing it? No. It seems that from all of your postings in this forum and on this issue, your main intent is bashing the AV vendors at the expense of Macecraft customers. I disagree with your logic here. I have not had any issues with my AV’s (NIS 2009 & NIS 2010) during any other software installations or use except for this. Was this new build 963/installer deliberately changed to try and break the AV’s so you could bash them?


#2 - I waited for over 15 minutes after the installer hung to no avail. At first I thought it was a bad or corrupted download. I downloaded 963 again and the same thing happened: Each time after over 15 minutes task manager showed application not responding. When I tried to end process the task manager froze and the system was non-responsive. The only thing possible to do was a hard shut-down. I went to this forum and found that many others were reporting the same problem. The installer in this instance does not work, it is broken, and freezes/locks the system with the apparent AV tussle, resulting in a hard shut-down. You should know that this can cause damage in lost file fragments resulting in an un-stable system.


If I disable my AV, I would also need to disable my internet connection. But, if I choose in the installation set-up to include the Anti-Malware and Handbook, it needs the internet connection to download these files. You should also know this. Are you advocating having an open internet connection with the AV disabled during the installation or that we should not choose the Anti-Malware and Handbook? This flies in the face of all common sense.


I think that you really know you have an untenable position regarding this issue, but are stubbornly defending it for whatever reason, and again at the expense of Macecraft customers. Maybe you just like to create these types of situations to self perpetuate your own importance in this forum? Needless to say, I was upset about my experience in trying to install 963 and felt strongly that I needed to voice my displeasure, especially after the hard shut-downs.


I am just over 6 weeks into a recovery of my Vista 32 bit system due to a hard drive crash. I have my software all reinstalled and I upgraded to jv PT 2010 (961) about 4 weeks ago. My registry and files were cleaned with a registry and system health of 100% so it said. But now after reading your further posts in response to mine, I am mad-as-hell about your apparent obstinacy because you just don’t appear to get it and/or really don’t care about the Macecraft customers.


It is Macecraft/Indigo job to make sure their customers are not getting a product that clashes with the AV. If the attitude that you have shown regarding this issue persists, then the customers will go elsewhere. Some already have and that’s a shame because it could have been avoided with some due diligence on the part of Macecraft/Indigo.

RDuroc wrote

#1 - Did Macecraft/Indigo submit the new build 963/installer to the AV developers so they could have a chance to test if it would work and give them a chance to provide a fix if necessary before releasing it? No.

Of course not. The servers of Symantec, for example, would crash in a matter of minutes if every single software company would send their products for them for testing before a release. Nor do they provide such service to software companies.

RDuroc wrote

It seems that from all of your postings in this forum and on this issue, your main intent is bashing the AV vendors at the expense of Macecraft customers.

If an Anti-Virus product prevents a perfectly valid program from running, stating that is not bashing.

RDuroc wrote

If I disable my AV, I would also need to disable my internet connection.

That is poor design of the Anti-Virus product if it requires you also to disable your internet connection.

RDuroc wrote

But, if I choose in the installation set-up to include the Anti-Malware and Handbook, it needs the internet connection to download these files. You should also know this. Are you advocating having an open internet connection with the AV disabled during the installation or that we should not choose the Anti-Malware and Handbook? This flies in the face of all common sense.

Both the Anti-Malware and the Handbook of PowerTools can be downloaded after the installation. There is no need for internet connection while installing PowerTools.

RDuroc wrote

But now after reading your further posts in response to mine, I am mad-as-hell about your apparent obstinacy because you just don’t appear to get it and/or really don’t care about the Macecraft customers.

What is it exactly that you are suggesting us to do? Should we fly over to Symantec's HQ and offer to give them a hand in fixing their Anti-Virus product?

RDuroc wrote

It is Macecraft/Indigo job to make sure their customers are not getting a product that clashes with the AV. If the attitude that you have shown regarding this issue persists, then the customers will go elsewhere. Some already have and that’s a shame because it could have been avoided with some due diligence on the part of Macecraft/Indigo.

We are trying to find a way around the problem at the very moment. But it's rather difficult because the problem is not in our software.

  • [deleted]

I am now certain this has nothing to do with the installer - simply dragging and dropping the latest jv16PT.exe file onto a computer with Norton installed causes the same freeze. I'd say this definitely means it's Norton that's at fault here.


I also verified this by changing literally nothing but the jv16PT.exe file to an older build in the installer and it then installed smoothly.

We all know Norton AV is tricky. You just have to do a search on this forum for threads reporting issues with it and you will see...

hukka wrote

I also verified this by changing literally nothing but the jv16PT.exe file to an older build in the installer and it then installed smoothly.

Hukka,

I am not sure I fully understand this last remark.

On older (before build 961?) jv16PT build combined with the installer used for build 963 runs smoothly?

  • [deleted]

Leonardo wrote
hukka wrote

I also verified this by changing literally nothing but the jv16PT.exe file to an older build in the installer and it then installed smoothly.

Hukka,

I am not sure I fully understand this last remark.

On older (before build 961?) jv16PT build combined with the installer used for build 963 runs smoothly?

Exactly. Also, I was just given a new build that seems to also be devoid of the freezing issue, so stand by for updates!

Build 964 of PowerTools released. It contains minor modifications in an attempt to bypass the problem, please see:

http://www.macecraft.com/news/197/

Jv,for those like me who didn't have any pbs with their AV (Nod32,3.0.695) during the install of.963,is it worth updating ? Thanks

Ludvig wrote
Jv,for those like me who didn't have any pbs with their AV (Nod32,3.0.695) during the install of.963,is it worth updating ? Thanks

Not really, mainly if you want to benefit from this:

Safety improvement: Running the Clean and Fix my computer or File Cleaner with the safest scan option will no longer list any files relating to Windows, nor any DLL or other executable files.

Still problems installing build 964 with NIS. :?


EDIT: I redownloaded it and it installed without any problems

Sorry, we encountered an error while displaying this content. If you're a user, please try again later. If you're an administrator, take a look in your Flarum log files for more information.

B964 installed normally and without any issues with NIS 2011 Beta on Windows 7 x86 Professional. NIS 2011 was not disabled during the installation of B964.

Sorry, we encountered an error while displaying this content. If you're a user, please try again later. If you're an administrator, take a look in your Flarum log files for more information.

B964 installed normally and without any issues with NIS 2010 on Windows XP Professional. B963 had twice locked up the computer during install.