Hi,


With all due respect, you are sidestepping issues and digging yourself a bigger hole. Until 2010 is publicly released, I would submit that 2009 is not an old version. I would further submit that anything depriving a user of what had previously been straightforward access to a program is critical. It is certainly not something that would be designed into a programme to keep users amused. To "cover your own backs", measures can be taken to not only lessen any loss of goodwill, but also to show that you have discharged some of your liability as a producer. Such measures do not have to be a fix and can certainly be of a very simple nature requiring but a few moments of thought.


Personally, now that I’ve become aware of the problem, I can certainly handle it. If an unfortunate combination of circumstances had led to problems arising when I’d been working all day to meet deadlines, I doubt it would have come into my head that your product, which has behaved impeccably over the years, should be investigated.


Simply hoping to give ideas for your full consideration,

S

If you wish to use a version of PowerTools 2009 without the potential issue, feel free to use the previous version which is available at: http://www.macecraft.com/downloads/jv16pt_setup_hb_1.9.0.580.exe


The problem found from the latest version is not serious. Small problems are common in every single computer software, if I would go back and try to fix each and every one of those issues I would be still working on the very first version of PowerTools ever released.


I repeat my case: the problem is not serious, you can use the workaround or downgrade to the earlier version. If I have made a misjudgement and the problem is indeed serious, a new fixed version of PowerTools 2009 will be released. But, I am not going to release an updated version of PowerTools 2009 without a very good reason because I would have to go back to backups of each and every single used component and test and make sure everything works. Otherwise the updated version could contain new problems.

Hi,


I really do think it would be a good idea if you carefully read and considered what I have written. I have not demanded a fix. I have said simple measures are possible. How would you feel if you bought a product with a known defect/bug that was not drawn to your attention at purchase and which could cause loss of functionality? Isn't it better to have a system to communicate the issue to all those who download via, for example, the update facility in the product. Buyers can then choose, inter alia, a) to use the workround, b) to download the fix just in case c) not install. All of these are better for the customer, and you, than unawareness, installation, "crisis" and frustration.


It does not matter personally to me if a fix is issued. I can handle such problems. However, as implied, the more that issues are sidestepped, the deeper the hole you dig yourself if, unfortunately, damage is suffered and someone is concerned enough to seek redress. Such person could have recourse to arguments such as the above and others voiced elsewhere. I have to say that answering the justifications you give requires no great skill. I am not trying to be belligerent, just helpful.


Don't forget that the palliative measures available to you can set out that no fix is being issued because... (give reasons, one of these being the forthcoming 2010 version). We may disagree on the severity of the bug, but the mere facts of the news item on the site’s front page and the nature of the posts here indicate, I would submit, that there is an issue which needs addressing.


I shall not try any more to get this message across. I remain a great proponent of the 2009 version and can well imagine that I will also acquire the 2010 version.


BR,

S

I am a new user who has used JV16 extensively during the trial period. My first impressions were that the product is excellent and I happily went about testing and using many of the different parts of the program. During this time I have also been doing some extensive cleanup and testing of other products both in the same category as JV16 and antivirus, spyware, and firewall products.


I would consider myself to be an intermediate user and while most of my friends and relatives think I'm an "expert" I realize that is far from the case. During the process of testing and using the product, I came across both this "bug" and another one which you have not yet addressed with very similar symptoms in the uninstall section of the program (see my other thread). Because of the similarity of symptoms (registry issues in the same general area), I suspect both "bugs" have the same root cause. Both "bugs" did not show up right away after the errors occurred and it was only after many hours of work spread over days that I managed to track it down to JV16. If I had not been so intensely involved in researching the possible causes and going through a learning curve of many hours, I would not have been able to determine what the cause was at all .... backup or no backup.


Here we have 2 of the main components of a wonderful program with bugs that in spite of what you say, from the user level are very serious indeed (can cause loss of functionality). You also don't seem to realize that it was only my willingness to go through hours of research and because my level of knowledge of registry issues is above average that I am even here in the first place. Most users would never know what caused these errors since they may not discover their symptoms until well after they occurred and even then would not have the knowledge to relate the errors to JV16. I would think it is reasonable to assume that far less than 10% of users who encounter these issues will even know where they came from much less report them or "fix" them.


I am also left with residual issues from the process of testing this and other programs which while not serious, are certainly curious. I have no idea and will probably never know what their root cause is. I had every intention of buying JV16 2009 but that is certainly not the case any longer. I am left with "less than full trust" in the use of the product and while I can back up anything I do, issues may not show up for weeks. I also did not receive any notification of possible issues from Macecraft which would have saved me a great deal of time in solving my problem. My email is working fine. Programs like this that are very powerful and have great potential to cause harm must also take on a higher than normal level of responsibility to their customers and not try to minimize what is clearly not a minor issue.


As has already been pointed out as well ... this is not an "old" or legacy product ... it is the latest update to your current product. Even Microsoft is still providing fixes to a product 2 generations back (XP).


I am left with truly being impressed and even excited with the concept of the program and your own abilities and skills to produce products, but not so much with it's implementation. I now have trust issues stemming from both the "bugs" themselves but even more so from your responses in this thread. I am a little perplexed and surprised that you are trying to categorize this as "minor" and from my perspective evading your responsibility to at least email every one of your clients to inform them of this. I think too that you are underestimating the number of people who could be affected.


In effect I am being "forced" to wait till the 2010 version is out and has been stable for long enough to create trust that there are no issues waiting to be discovered there as well.


Absolutely great product ..... backed up by not so great concern or insight into the nature of their customers. It sems to me a classic case of an amazing developer getting caught up in the narrow world of program development at the cost of "real world" awareness of their customers' needs and abilities.


I don't believe I am alone.


Sybrandus

Sybrandus be shure you are not alone, I completely agree with you.

I agree with you, Hanzie, Stavkirke, Dinny and Roberta.

The hole in which JV16 is digging himself is getting deeper and deeper.


Regards

I've been using JV16 for a few years now and I had trouble with this bug. One day I turned on my computer and I was unable to open any folders or access any shortcuts to the folders. Took me a couple of days to find a reg fix to finally get the folders to open but I couldn't find any fix to get the shortcuts to work.


I ended up slipstreaming an XP SP2 disc with SP 3 and doing a repair. Immediately, reinstalled my firewall and AV to avoid problems, I started getting explorer.exe errors. I eventually traced it to KMPlayer while playing videos. Couldn't get that problem fixed so I just uninstalled KMPlayer and changed to VLC Player which fixed the problem. I ended up reinstalling Firefox to fix problems, too. I ended up wasting three weeks to get everything straightened back out. I never gave it a thought that JV16 2009 would have been the problem until I happen to visit about a week ago.


Sorry, but I'll have to think about it real hard before I upgrade to 2010.

edison wrote
Sybrandus be shure you are not alone, I completely agree with you.

I agree with you, Hanzie, Stavkirke, Dinny and Roberta.

The hole in which JV16 is digging himself is getting deeper and deeper.


Regards

Yes, this is crazy. Most any other software maker would just issue a new updated version

of the program with the fix. The patch is ok, but.....


And, to wait for the 2010 version.....


Just my opinion.

I have never posted here before, but this subject is important to me and as a really long time user of JV I am also very disappointed that known errors are now only being fixed in Upgrades. What made this product what it is today was that all users(including non-computer savvy ones) trusted this software would do what it said it would do without causing them problems. That it was correct and when it was not it was quickly corrected. I can understand the pressure for programs to move on and provide income, but known issues need to be addressed(for everyone) ASAP before one should move on. Don't get me wrong here, I do welcome JV's new ideas and improvements, but not with the sacrifice of integrity. Without user trust your new update is useless! The JV I used to know would release many versions in a single day to be sure his code was correct, but alas where is that JV now? :

I just returned from a 3 week vacation. Shortly before that i upgraded to jvPT590. In the week after the upgrade I encounterred weird/unpredictable problems with my Win-XP-Prof. SP3 system. To shorten the story I ended up with reinstalling Office office 2003, Monzilla, Win-Explorer v8 and several Microsoft updates .

After reading this forum I now degraded to jvPT580, after restoring the previous register cleaning actions with v590. If my problems are indeed related to this jvPT590 KNOWN bug described here and to be fixed in the 2010 version, i am really shocked.

I am a user of this product from why back, even from before Jouni went into military service! To be honnest my first doubt about the reliability and trust in jvPT started in 2008. That version was in my opinion not really stable (finished) before the 2009 test-version arrived. Now the same seems to happen.

Why this change in design & maintenance philosofy? If customers loose their trust in a program like this, than it will be quickly the end of it.

I will NOT buy the 2010 version before we get a stable (fixed) 2009 version. As a customer for many many years that is the least I can expect!

Leonardo wrote
I just returned from a 3 week vacation. Shortly before that i upgraded to jvPT590. In the week after the upgrade I encounterred weird/unpredictable problems with my Win-XP-Prof. SP3 system. To shorten the story I ended up with reinstalling Office office 2003, Monzilla, Win-Explorer v8 and several Microsoft updates .

After reading this forum I now degraded to jvPT580, after restoring the previous register cleaning actions with v590. If my problems are indeed related to this jvPT590 KNOWN bug described here and to be fixed in the 2010 version, i am really shocked.

The problem you describe doesn't sound like the problem that could be caused by the potential issue in the latest version of PowerTools.

Leonardo wrote

I am a user of this product from why back, even from before Jouni went into military service! To be honnest my first doubt about the reliability and trust in jvPT started in 2008. That version was in my opinion not really stable (finished) before the 2009 test-version arrived. Now the same seems to happen.

Why this change in design & maintenance philosofy?

There is no such change in philosophy. It's just a simple matter of maths: the longer you use any product and always update, the more probable you are to encounter a problem with a future version. This is because every single computer software contains bugs and the longer you use a software, the more likely you are to encounter a bug.

Leonardo wrote

If customers loose their trust in a program like this, than it will be quickly the end of it.

I will NOT buy the 2010 version before we get a stable (fixed) 2009 version. As a customer for many many years that is the least I can expect!

You can use the version of the product you like the best, no one is forced to update to a newer version. And like I said, all users who encounter the potential problem with PowerTools 2009 are entitled for a free upgrade to PowerTools 2010.



One reason affecting the call for not to release an updated version of PowerTools 2009 is that I have lost backups (due to backup media breakup) of a few required components needed by PowerTools 2009. I naturally have the newer versions that are used with PowerTools 2010, but they are not compatible with PowerTools 2009 any longer, so I would need to modify all of them to work again with PT 2009 again and hope the modifications do not cause any new problems. Or, spend a lot of time testing it, again, and then release the update. This would cause delays to PowerTools 2010 but what's more important: I just frankly do not see the point.

I am at the moment evaluating how much work would be needed to release an updated version of PowerTools 2009.

Public testing for the new version has been started: http://www.macecraft.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=3949


I changed my mind about the need for an updated version due to a few bug reports received which makes me believe the problem is indeed worth fixing.

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I'll add my thanks as well. I believe you are doing the right thing.


You still need a bug free "current product" though. My trial has expired and there is currently no "bug free" version to buy. What I am facing is the same dilemna as every potential new customer ie. do you currently have a version that I can trust. It seems to me (my perception and probably others as well) that both 2009 and 2010 are now pre beta and the earlier versions of 2009 have bugs that may cause unpredictable issues.


Do potential new customers need to wait until there is reliable 2010 version before they "pay you the money"?


It seems strange to me that in the rush to get 2010 to market ... you are left without a product that can be trusted enough to actually purchase.


Sybrandus

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